Unknown device - Cervena hora (near Guntramovice / Gundersdorf, Czech republic)

[CoVoX]

Hi Zulufox,

Unfortunately the wooden tower was destroyed after the war.
No tower, no socles, no pictures

Best Regards,
CoVoX

[CoVoX]

Perhaps it was the same tower as on the Storchberg?!

viewtopic.php?t=16607

[CoVoX]

A few interesting photos of a green bench made from... mysterious device

[Cremer]

@all,

it was the same antennaconstruction as on Schneeberg

could be this a early contruction of testing for bearing aircrafts as well in distance and azimut? Later they stopped this development for other better developments with Würzburg equipment, see würzmann
It seems that this will be as well a early construction with Wellenschieber (today arrayphase antenna)?

I had asked a collegue:
auf dem ersten Bild steht eigentlich schon alles. die Jungs waren damals schon gut. Das sind alles Rundstrahlantennen für die Peilung. Die Antennen waren nebeneinander und voreinander montiert. Ich vermute über die Unterschiedlichkeit der Signale wurde die Richtung und die Entfernung berechnet. Bei den mobilen Peilern der Polizei sind 6 Antennen im Dach des KFZs montiert. 3 links, 3 rechts. Die Technik ist nur besser geworden, aber nicht anders.

[Cremer]

Es könnte sich sehr wohl um eine Funkpeilanlage gehandelt haben mit sehr gebündelten Strahlungsdiagrammen.
Die Anordnung der Antennen mit unterschiedlichen Abständen ist ähnlich dem Landekurssender des heutigen Instrumentenlandesystems. Allerdings fehlt bei Cervina hora und Schneeberg die Mittelantenne.

Vergleiche hierzu anbei aus "Funkortungs- und Funknavigationsanlagen" von Werner Mansfeld, Seite 297 und 298.

[ZCh]

Interesting idea, but ...

ILS is designed to guide the aircraft in the exact horizontal and vertical axis TOWARDS the airport, where there is also a TRANSMITTER. In bigger distance from transmitter is big(ger) error in the position, but with decreasing distance (with teh approaching the aircraft to the airport) this error decreases.

Systems for guiding in the OPPOSITE direction (from the transmitter) - as Knickebein, X-Gerät, Y-Gerät, and its own way Bernhard too - reduce this error by increasing the antenna system. But the width of the antenna system at Cervena hora could be only about 15 m (max 20 m).

Also I don't believe that it is there (and even less at Schneeberg) about the guidance of aircraft towards the transmitter....

[Cremer]

@ZCh

The ILS consistes of 3 different transmittersystems (see pdf ....0967)
- the Landkurs engl. localizer (LOC) Frequency 108 to 112 MHz
- the Gleitweg engl. glide path (GP) Frequency 328 to 336 MHz
- the markers by 1050 and 7500m before runway Frequenca 75 MHz

I mean only the landekurs-System with 7 antennas. (see pdf ...7727) page 294 "Hauptkennwerte", picture 4.3 a) This is the same arrangemant to get the very small beams acc. picture 4.10

The are only two differences by Schneeberg and Cervina hora:
- there is no middleantenna (see pdf...0967) picture 4.5 It is not necessary to produce phase and frequency different signals.
- there are 10 antenna instead of 7 antenna in one lane.

But this arrangement produce the same harmonic characteristic of small beams with a wideness of +-10 degree ( see pdf..6796) picture 4.10, No.c)

May be that Schneeberg and Cervina hora were equipments for testing and producing very small radiation characteristics for Peiler (direction finder) or for radiotransmitting-recieving equipment over long distances.

[Cremer]

I had phoned with Mr. von Kroge, autor of the book "GEMA - BERLIN"

During the Olympiade 1936 in Berlin Telefunken has developped a Richtfunkanlage called "Olympia-anlage Mast".
Mr. Fellgiebel took notice of these Richtfunkstrecken. He promoted the development for the Wehrmacht (DMG 1G, DMG 2G). The first installations were on Schneeberg and Cervena hora as Relaisstations. It was a early type called "DMG 4 k Michael I" (Dezimetergerät 4k). The antenna construction changed later.
see Trenkle "Die deutschen Funknachrichtenanlagen bis 1945" Band 2 "Der zweite Weltkrieg, Kapitel 13, Seite 109 bis 122

[beaviso]

Great, Cremer, thank you for solving this mystery!
Now it's clear why it was a directional antenna installed on a fixed base.

M.

[nordfriese]

Moin!

Ich durfte heute einen Blick in ein paar Seiten eines Buches werfen:
Wolfgang und Kurt Pervesler "Geheime Kommandosache Gaisberg", Salzburg 1996
ISBN 3-9500617-0-3

Dort befindet sich ein Foto mit zwei dieser Antennen. Dort sollen sogar ins-
gesamt drei gestanden haben. Wahrscheinlich einer in Richtung Zugspitze,
einer in Richtung Wien und einer in Richtung Aumbach (und weiter zum Schnee-
berg).

Gruss aus NF!
Rolf