Ausrüstung eines LN Zuges?
Ladies (we still have one with us?) and Gentlemen,
I used the word earlier sensational, and that is what I consider the picture of the Auswertung, a "T-Hütte" on rails, never shown in public before. Gisbert thank you ever so much for sharing. The number of the Kp. (43) seems a bit high and I will investigate further. But the mere fact, that there were more of these Flum-Zuge in SE France, than Hoffmann has lead us to beleive, also is also information of great value. My theory right now is that we are looking at CELEBES I, II and III.
bregds
SES
I used the word earlier sensational, and that is what I consider the picture of the Auswertung, a "T-Hütte" on rails, never shown in public before. Gisbert thank you ever so much for sharing. The number of the Kp. (43) seems a bit high and I will investigate further. But the mere fact, that there were more of these Flum-Zuge in SE France, than Hoffmann has lead us to beleive, also is also information of great value. My theory right now is that we are looking at CELEBES I, II and III.
bregds
SES
Hi,
Based on some off board discussions with Gisbert I have now been able to piece together a more complete picure of the deployment of these units.
The history of these units is not very well covered in the published literature. Based on this passage from Hoffmann:
Zur Einsatzführung der im Luftflottenbereich vorübergehend befindlichen Nachtjagdgruppe trafen im Juni fünf der neun vorhandenen Eisenbahn-Nachtjagd-Leitkompanien der II./Ln-Rgt. 42 (spätere Ln-Flugm.-Abt. (E) z. b. V. 21) aus dem Raum Berlin und Westeuropa ein. Diese "Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge" verlegten auch vorübergehend mit Nachtjagdstaffeln in den Charkower Raum (Luftflotte 4).
we were lead to believe, that ALL the trains left for the Eastern front after a shot employment in the Berlin area and in Western Europe. A while back I got a Gliederung of II JK from from the spring of 1945, and here suddenly were 3 Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge, which appeared out of "nowhere". Based on the recently received evidence, it can now be established that at least 3 trains operated in Western Europe throughout the war. One of these units was Ln-Flum. Kp. (E) zbV 16, the other 2 must have been 8. and 9./Ln-Flugmeldeabteilungen (E) z. b. V. 22. If one reads Hoffmann carefully they are also strangely absent form his description of the organization in Eastern Europe.
Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%202.htm
bregds
SES
Based on some off board discussions with Gisbert I have now been able to piece together a more complete picure of the deployment of these units.
The history of these units is not very well covered in the published literature. Based on this passage from Hoffmann:
Zur Einsatzführung der im Luftflottenbereich vorübergehend befindlichen Nachtjagdgruppe trafen im Juni fünf der neun vorhandenen Eisenbahn-Nachtjagd-Leitkompanien der II./Ln-Rgt. 42 (spätere Ln-Flugm.-Abt. (E) z. b. V. 21) aus dem Raum Berlin und Westeuropa ein. Diese "Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge" verlegten auch vorübergehend mit Nachtjagdstaffeln in den Charkower Raum (Luftflotte 4).
we were lead to believe, that ALL the trains left for the Eastern front after a shot employment in the Berlin area and in Western Europe. A while back I got a Gliederung of II JK from from the spring of 1945, and here suddenly were 3 Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge, which appeared out of "nowhere". Based on the recently received evidence, it can now be established that at least 3 trains operated in Western Europe throughout the war. One of these units was Ln-Flum. Kp. (E) zbV 16, the other 2 must have been 8. and 9./Ln-Flugmeldeabteilungen (E) z. b. V. 22. If one reads Hoffmann carefully they are also strangely absent form his description of the organization in Eastern Europe.
Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%202.htm
bregds
SES
I have up-dated the page with more pictures and additional information.SES hat geschrieben:Hi,
Based on some off board discussions with Gisbert I have now been able to piece together a more complete picure of the deployment of these units.
The history of these units is not very well covered in the published literature. Based on this passage from Hoffmann:
Zur Einsatzführung der im Luftflottenbereich vorübergehend befindlichen Nachtjagdgruppe trafen im Juni fünf der neun vorhandenen Eisenbahn-Nachtjagd-Leitkompanien der II./Ln-Rgt. 42 (spätere Ln-Flugm.-Abt. (E) z. b. V. 21) aus dem Raum Berlin und Westeuropa ein. Diese "Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge" verlegten auch vorübergehend mit Nachtjagdstaffeln in den Charkower Raum (Luftflotte 4).
we were lead to believe, that ALL the trains left for the Eastern front after a shot employment in the Berlin area and in Western Europe. A while back I got a Gliederung of II JK from from the spring of 1945, and here suddenly were 3 Nachtjagd-Eisenbahnzüge, which appeared out of "nowhere". Based on the recently received evidence, it can now be established that at least 3 trains operated in Western Europe throughout the war. One of these units was Ln-Flum. Kp. (E) zbV 16, the other 2 must have been 8. and 9./Ln-Flugmeldeabteilungen (E) z. b. V. 22. If one reads Hoffmann carefully they are also strangely absent form his description of the organization in Eastern Europe.
Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%202.htm
bregds
SES
bregds
SES
Hi,
Based on the map provided by Eric on a different thread RAUBVOGEL 3 and 4 have now been identified as being present in Western Germany in the winter of 1943 - 44. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%202.htm
bregds
SES
Based on the map provided by Eric on a different thread RAUBVOGEL 3 and 4 have now been identified as being present in Western Germany in the winter of 1943 - 44. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%202.htm
bregds
SES
Miracles never cease to happen.
Hi,
In the latest edition of the Flieger Blatt there is the article attached. It describes the initial story of SUMATRA I. The editor apparently have the entire document, which purportedly has the entire operational story of the train. Needless to say I have m@iled them already.
mfg
SES
In the latest edition of the Flieger Blatt there is the article attached. It describes the initial story of SUMATRA I. The editor apparently have the entire document, which purportedly has the entire operational story of the train. Needless to say I have m@iled them already.
mfg
SES
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.
The (hopefully) never ending story.
Hi,
Here is the result of my preliminary analysis of the document. The copy I got is incomplete, as it mainly deals with the periods, where the train participated in kills and it stops in JUL 1944. But still it adds to our (new) understanding of the operations of these trains.
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%20SUM%201.htm
bregds
SES
Here is the result of my preliminary analysis of the document. The copy I got is incomplete, as it mainly deals with the periods, where the train participated in kills and it stops in JUL 1944. But still it adds to our (new) understanding of the operations of these trains.
http://www.gyges.dk/Ln%20zbV%20SUM%201.htm
bregds
SES
SES,
You've asked me about the location called "Diatkowo". After some unsuccesful approaches I've finally managed to find it! I tried Google for "Diatkovo" (Russian transcrypt) and there is such city in Russia (Bryansk region), some 400 km SW Moscow. Please see attached map and find the word shown below (upper-right orange area of the map). It is Diatkovo.
First I thought it may be somewhere in Poland, but when I saw full article on Sumatra I, and the number of kills when the train was near Diatkovo (12 in 2 weeks), I became sure it must have been in Russia, not Poland. It was summer 1943, and such high score seems probable for deep Eastern front, not Poland.
The same probably applies to "Ljubochna". I think it's not Lubochnia in central Poland, but some Russian city. I will find it later, now I'm leaving for Saturday evening beer & drink
Cheers,
Michal
P.S. As you can see on the map, there IS a railway crossing thru Diatkovo.
You've asked me about the location called "Diatkowo". After some unsuccesful approaches I've finally managed to find it! I tried Google for "Diatkovo" (Russian transcrypt) and there is such city in Russia (Bryansk region), some 400 km SW Moscow. Please see attached map and find the word shown below (upper-right orange area of the map). It is Diatkovo.
First I thought it may be somewhere in Poland, but when I saw full article on Sumatra I, and the number of kills when the train was near Diatkovo (12 in 2 weeks), I became sure it must have been in Russia, not Poland. It was summer 1943, and such high score seems probable for deep Eastern front, not Poland.
The same probably applies to "Ljubochna". I think it's not Lubochnia in central Poland, but some Russian city. I will find it later, now I'm leaving for Saturday evening beer & drink
Cheers,
Michal
P.S. As you can see on the map, there IS a railway crossing thru Diatkovo.
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Hi,
Ljubochna... That's obvious now! A small town, just a few kilometers south Diatkovo, on the railway Sometimes I'm glad I had to learn a bit Russian in primary school...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblast_Brjansk
SES, please change the position of "Sselzo", too. It's Selzo, a little bit SW of Ljubochna, on the railway passing Bryansk (the major city there)..
brgds,
M.
Ljubochna... That's obvious now! A small town, just a few kilometers south Diatkovo, on the railway Sometimes I'm glad I had to learn a bit Russian in primary school...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblast_Brjansk
SES, please change the position of "Sselzo", too. It's Selzo, a little bit SW of Ljubochna, on the railway passing Bryansk (the major city there)..
brgds,
M.
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Zuletzt geändert von beaviso am 26.02.2006 15:39, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.