mittl. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. Stellung NATTER

Funkmess-, Funkpeil-, Funkleit- und Funkstörtechnik des 2. Weltkriegs
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beaviso
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mittl. Flugmelde-Leit-Kp. Stellung NATTER

Beitrag von beaviso » 01.06.2013 06:34

Somewhere in the drawer ;) I came across a couple of old pictures taken back in spring 2009, when I discovered another German radar site in northern Poland and, together with Alkali, travelled to see its remains.

NATTER - the perfect example of a mysterious Stellung - the fourth of such kind within the area of Pomorze/Pommern (PUMA, STAR, ROHRDOMMEL and NATTER). All these sites didn't exist in July 1943, but were still planned to be arised in late summer 1943. Nevertheless, there is no further evidence of their existence and operational use - neither on the maps from 1944, nor in K.O. Hoffmann's listing of units... (Note: There were sites with identical codenames in northern Germany, which brings additional confusion.)

But, if NATTER hadn't ever been operational, would it be possible to find debris from a broken W-R around the socle, like small pieces of antenna grid and antenna frame? There is a lot of it... It is a clear sign that the radar was blown-up in its place, that must have taken place shortly before German army retreated - an evidence found as well in many other sites in Poland, that were kept intact to the end of the war. (Note: The Russians and Poles entered Pommern in February and early March 1945.)

Maybe someday new documents will emerge and prove what unit operated NATTER and the other mentioned sites. I think that the lacking piece of puzzle might be the organisation of a higher unit (a regiment) that KONDOR and LEOPARD belonged to before September 1944.

I attach a Google Maps screen from 2009, showing both W-Rs and former Stellungszentrale area. Plus photos of both W-R socles as we found them. It was a nice and sunny trip, indeed :) Four years later we decided to scan the ground for some radar remains, which proved to be positive. And a general clean-up of an ugly W-R socle was a good start up after a long winter :mrgreen:

M.
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Beitrag von SES (†) » 02.06.2013 08:43

Hi,
Nice find. In Denmark we have similar examples of sites that were planned and in an advanced state of construction only to be abandoned, in mid 1944.
bregds
SES

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Beitrag von beaviso » 02.06.2013 11:59

SES hat geschrieben:sites that were planned and in an advanced state of construction only to be abandoned, in mid 1944.
Hello SES,
I know I like to ask questions difficult to answer, but did "an advanced state of construction" mean W-Rs installed?
A total of ~1,500 W-Rs were ever produced. I believe it counts mainly for antennas and cabins, because other modules were surely manufactured in bigger numbers including field replacement (in your book you mention a block module design of a W-R, if I recall correctly). While 1,500 antennas is a significant number, does it automatically mean that Germans could allow themselves to leave intact radars at abandoned sites? They could have engaged them elsewhere instead of leaving useless.
The facts about NATTER are that at least one W-R was for sure installed and later devastated using explosives. We didn't check the second site with metal detectors, but that socle also has typical signs of a radar's basis removal - all its mounting bolts were skillfully cut off.
If there are broken pieces of a radar around its socle, including mostly antenna parts, it most probably means that Germans devastated it on purpose, because Russians would have disassembled important parts without breaking them. And Germans did it in order to prevent the W-R from falling into Russian hands - which must have taken place shortly before the enemy troops approached (i.e. Feb.1945).
To sum it up - I am not convinced that an intact radar would have been kept in an abandoned site for as long as 18 months.
What we deal with is a blank space in documents between August 1943 (arising) and September 1944 (big reorganisation incl. decomissioning of numerous sites), for this particular region.

Kind regards,
M.

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Beitrag von SES (†) » 02.06.2013 19:52

Hi,
I'm unsure how far the construction progressed in Denmark, and we have no evidence to indicate that radars were ever mounted at the sites, that were abandoned. We know that their operational introduction must have been planned in early 1944, but they were probably caught up in the Big Reorganization. I have pictures of two sites where the entire barracks area is complete and still standing at the time of the liberation.
bregds
SES

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Beitrag von SES (†) » 03.06.2013 07:55

Hi Mihael,
I don't even have NATTER on my map, could you please indicated the location.
http://www.gyges.dk/Poland%20Stel%20summary%208.pdf
bregds
SES

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Beitrag von zulufox » 03.06.2013 13:05

Hi Michael,

glad to help, see the Positions of both Würzburg-Riese at the attached file.

Be aware, that this location is about 30 km North to Northeast of the Training Area Groß-Born.

We had some years ago some discussions about Würzburg-Riese and weather-balloons in that area.

Bregds
Zf :holy:
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Beitrag von beaviso » 03.06.2013 13:42

SES hat geschrieben:Hi Mihael,
I don't even have NATTER on my map, could you please indicated the location.
http://www.gyges.dk/Poland%20Stel%20summary%208.pdf
Approximate locations of sites in question are:

NATTER 53*47'N 16*24'E (not on the map yet)
ROHRDOMMEL 54*10'N 16*47'E (" ")
PUMA 54*20'N 17*43'E (wrong position on the map - as for April 1943 very first plan)
STAR 53*49'N 18*05'E (" ")

Pls update your map accordingly, SES :)

I suggest not to show the planned positions for April 1943 for LEOPARD, PUMA and STAR, as they are too close to their later and actual positions and make map unclear (difficult to fit them onto one map of such small scale). Only one LEOPARD (yellow) near the coast, and
NATTER, ROHRDOMMEL, PUMA, STAR (all green) on the positions indicated by me.

M.

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Beitrag von SES (†) » 04.06.2013 11:05

Hi,
Thanks a lot I'll se how I can fit it in.
bregds
SES

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Beitrag von SES (†) » 05.05.2014 19:04

Done - with almost no delay ;)
http://www.gyges.dk/Flum%20and%20Jagd.htm
bregds
SES

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Beitrag von beaviso » 05.05.2014 20:59

Great :) But discussion about the colours (yellow/green) remains open until some new documents emerge (if such exist).

M.

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